BYU Professor: Scientifically Research Away the Gay?

These are excerpts from a blog post and comments by Dr. Sven Wilson, a BYU Associate Professor who advocates scientific research to stop people from being born gay or cure them from being gay:

“I am struck by how little there has been in the past couple of decades, especially given the importance of gay rights as a social concern. But perhaps the politics explains the lack of science. It would be disconcerting, at least, to embark on a field of study where an increasingly large group of politically motivated, influential and often angry people are already convinced they know the answer: sexual orientation is innate and immutable. The activist community wants acceptance, not understanding.  Hence, most people will avoid doing science that will cause people to hate them if they get unpopular answers (or, even worse, label them as hateful for even asking the questions).”

“Both the innate and immutable claims might prove to be true, but as more and more people buy the hype, the science gets harder and harder to do.  What if, perchance, this new epigenetic research leads to a medical or other treatment (perhaps prenatal hormonal therapies) that could “turn off” the development of homosexual orientation in utero or sometime thereafter? How would this affect the gay rights movement?”

“Shouldn’t even people who are gay rights activists be in favor of the development of knowledge that might lead to such a discovery? A consistent theme I hear when homosexuals tell their stories about coming out is how hard it was to admit, first to themselves and then to others, that they are gay. Many of them tell stories of great pain and anguish prior to coming out (and sometimes thereafter).  Wouldn’t eliminating that pain be wonderful?”

“The obvious response to this is that it isn’t homosexuality that causes the pain, but is instead the “homophobic culture” we live in. Fair enough.  But consider the thought experiment where the culture is completely accepting of homosexuality. It seems that even in this homophilic wonderland, there are compelling reasons to prevent homosexuality. First of all, the desire to create biological children that are related to both parents seems a powerful (and biologically rooted) urge. Second, mate selection is much harder for homosexuals purely for statistical reasons.  Third, the social self-sorting of homosexuals into urban environments, where mate selection is easier, can be costly, especially for individuals who don’t like those environments for other reasons. Finally, there is always stress (sometimes a lot) for growing up as a minority, whether minority status is defined, by race, religion, ethnicity, or sexuality.”

“In short, a central claim of the gay rights movement is that homosexuals do not choose to be gay. But if they could, would they? If there were a simple treatment that their mothers could have chosen, wouldn’t it be desirable? Sure, many activists are going to say, “No Way. Gay life is wonderful. We are proud of who we are.” I believe they are sincere. Yet I wonder, even for that group, what they would tell their mothers to do if they could go back in time.  Would not even people who are completely accepting of homosexuality choose heterosexuality for their children if given the option?  Certainly some would not, but I wager that the overwhelming majority would.”

From his comments:

“I can understand you love your son very much.  But I find this idea that you wouldn’t change anything about him if you could very strange.  I adore my kids just the way there are, but there are definitely things about each of them that I would change if I could.”

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“A main point I make is that there is huge amount of pain associated with this issue. My conjecture is that it rather obvious to most reasonable people, therefore, that it would be very desirable to have methods to prevent homosexuality from ever occurring in the first place or to potentially reverse it (I’m absolutely not arguing for any of the past “therapies” here, which seem to be mostly damaging to people).  However, this would require open-minded study of the topic–not assuming the answer.  Individuals can always (and should always) be treated with love and respect. But to establish political walls against learning about the origins of homosexuality is a pretty “hateful” thing to do to people, in my view.  We can love and accept people without accepting the unfounded rhetoric.”

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“I can understand the moral value of treating homosexuals with the love, dignity and respect that is due to anyone.  But I don’t see the benefits of homosexuality itself, holding other factors constant, and I think there are considerable costs.” 

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“If you read my post you will note that the claim is that homosexuality is a human characteristic that most anyone would want to prevent or reverse.  It can make life very painful because of the harassment and rejection you mention.  But even in a world where there was none of that abuse or discrimination, it would not be desirable for the reasons I mention (the most important being the issue of children).  I will not re-post those claims, since you can actually read them above, if you’d like to take the time.”

I appreciate the disclaimer at the end of his biography on the blog:

“Wilson’s views expressed in this blog are entirely his own and should not be attributed to his university, its sponsoring church, his wife, children, neighbors, friends, or anyone with any sense.”

I find the previous paragraph in his bio rather ironic:

“Wilson’s large family leaves an enormous carbon footprint, but he buys no bogus eco-credits.  Instead, he is trying to help his children be net-producers and nice people.”   (My emphasis)

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Okay, here are my limited questions and comments:

If you were LGBTQ and Dr. Wilson happened to be your bishop, would you go to him for counsel knowing that he advocates scientific research to do away with a core aspect of you?

Do you think he is a “nice person?”

Do you think there are things about him that his children would change if they could?

Doesn’t what Dr. Wilson proposes sound a lot like the rhetoric used by Adolf Hitler to support his “research” on creating a superior race?

Dr. Wilson claims that he loves gay people and that gay people should be treated with courtesy, but I do not see that in his blog post or his remarks.  BYU and the church castigated the professor last year who brought up the “fence-sitting” argument as the reason for withholding the priesthood from black men before 1978.  I think the university and church should issue a similar rebuke to Dr. Sven Wilson for his call to use science to create a world without LGBTQ people.  That is my opinion.

The Stoney-Baynard Plantation Ruins on Hilton Head

These photos are from a site I visited in 2011.

SC - Hilton Head - Stoney-Baynard Ruins on Sea Pines Plantation

The area of Sea Pines Plantation on Hilton Head Island was named Braddock’s Point Plantation in the 1700s. An Irish privateer, “Captain Jack” (John) Stoney arrived in South Carolina in 1774 with his wife and his own merchant ship. He fought for the Patriots in the American Revolution and acquired a fortune for his efforts. He bought the 1,000 acre Braddock’s Point Plantation in 1776.

The Stoney-Baynard Ruins are the foundation of the plantation house built by John Stoney. This was my fifth trip to Hilton Head since 2003, but I had not been to this site. I signed up for a tour that was cancelled because they did have enough people register for the tour. I did a self-tour and spent about 30 minutes at the site. I later found a number of Internet references with varying stories about the history of the house. Some of the references appeared to have contradictory information.

The date that construction began on the plantation home is in dispute, but most accounts placed it between 1790 and 1796. The ruins of the plantation house are the primary attraction on the site, but other smaller ruins from the plantation are also preserved in the area.

The above ruins are the side (foreground) and back of the plantation house.

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The house apparently extended beyond the foundation and reportedly had 1,840 square feet, plus a wrap around porch. It faced Calibogue Sound on a bluff to take advantage of the cooling breeze off the water. The area is now wooded, but it is presumed that the home had a clear view to the Sound.

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(One of the front corners of the house)

“Captain Jack” Stoney died in a hunting accident in 1821. His extensive holdings were jointly managed by his two sons, James and John. There is confusion about how many generations of Stoney heirs owned the property. One site listed four generations, but I noted a number of contradictions in that resource and confusion in the names of the owners. One of the resources said the name of “Captain Jack” merchant ship was the “Saucy Jack.” Other references said that “Saucy Jack” was his son, John. James died in 1827. John died in 1838.

Some stories said that John “Saucy Jack” lost the plantation in a poker game before he died. That does not appear to be supported. It does appear that the plantation, which had been mortgaged to the Bank of Charleston, was taken over by the bank after John’s death.

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(Front of house)

William Eddings Baynard owned two plantation on Hilton Head, Spanish Wells and Muddy Creek. He acquired Braddock’s Point Plantation from the Bank of Charleston in 1840 and moved his family to the plantation house. William Baynard died in 1849. His family lived in the home until the Civil War arrived in 1861.

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(Side of the house with the Main Floor corner wall)

Union forces took Hilton Head Island in November of 1861. The army reportedly occupied the house through 1864. The house burned sometime in the latter half of 1867. Some stories attributed it to Confederate arson, but I doubt that is true since the Civil War ended in 1865.

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The Baynards paid back taxes and re-acquired the plantation after the Civil War, but they did not reconstruct the burned house. The foundation and part of the walls remained since they were constructed of “tabby,” which did not burn. The site is noted as one of the largest and best remains of tabby construction.

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(Back corner and side of the house)

Sea Pines Plantation was the first real estate development on Hilton Head Island. Charles Frazier, the developer, was interested in preserving the forests and the artifacts within Sea Pines. He set aside the area around the Stoney-Baynard Ruins as part of Baynard Park. The site is on the National Register of Historic Sites.

It is an interesting place and a challenging photographic site. I wish that the story behind the site was less confusing. Maybe I can catch a tour and get the more definitive story on a future visit to Hilton Head.

On the Seattle to Bremerton Ferry

I love riding on North Carolina’s ferry system.  My son moved from Seattle to the peninsula, so last year’s visit included a ride on the Seattle to Bremerton ferry.  It rained much of the trip.  That gave the photos a darker mood.  The clouds began to lift once I reached Bremerton.  It was great being with my son.

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Social Opinion and the Supreme Court

HRC Marriage Equality Red LogoThe gay marriage equality picture sure changed in the less than two months since the Supreme Court heard testimony about Proposition 8 and DOMA.  I did not expect a wide-ranging ruling that approved gay marriage based on some of Chief Justice Roberts’ questions.  It seemed more likely the Court would strike down DOMA, particularly since the congressional record showed that DOMA was enacted to show Congressional disapproval of gay people.  One of the highlights was when the pro DOMA attorney was surprised to learn that information.

Court observers said that the Supreme Court would be hesitant to issue a broad ruling in favor of gay marriage.  They said the Court felt bruised over taking the Bush vs. Gore case that decided the 2000 election.  Also, they noted the social divide and criticism the Court still takes over Roe vs. Wade.

Against that backdrop, it is interesting to see how quickly the tide has turned in favor of marriage equality.  The Court is not supposed to be swayed by politics or public opinion, per my high school government class.  Theory is not reality, though, and the Court does not operate in a vacuüm.

Before the last two weeks, when Rhode Island, Delaware, and Minnesota each approved gay marriage, the most I thought the Court might do was strike down prohibitions against civil unions.  That compromise would leave lots of people angry, but it would be one way to extend legal rights without being perceived as infringing on churches that oppose gay marriage.  I think a ruling in favor of gay marriage is more likely now, and will be even more probable if Illinois approves gay marriage before the Court issues its opinions.

For my friends who are on the other side of this issue, I emphasize that no church has been forced to perform a gay marriage in any of the states with marriage equality.  I think the people who try to tie commercial cases to religious freedom have a weak argument.  I am all for religious freedom.  I do not think the Mormon church needs to fear gay civil marriage as a threat to temple marriage.  The church has never been forced to perform temple marriages for people who do not follow the Word of Wisdom, even though the prohibited substances are legal products.

Here are two links.  This article about twelve states that will probably legalize gay marriage in the next two years is two months old.  It is interesting to see what has happened since the article was written.  This blog post is from one of my Facebook friends, John G-W, in Minnesota.  He talks about the need for marriage equality proponents and opponents to talk with each other so they can learn to understand each other even if they do not agree.

I did not expect gay marriage to move forward so quickly when I was working with Mormons for Equality last year.  I am happy for my gay Facebook friends in states where their marriages are recognized.  I hope Federal recognition for gay couples in all states comes next month via the Supreme Court.

Eleven Favorite Songs from the 1990s

The highs and lows from the 1980s carried over into the 1990s. My son emerged as an influence by introducing me to artists and songs that did not receive airplay on my soft rock and oldies radio stations.

900024-R1-26-261991 – Losing My Religion – R.E.M.

This song seemed haunting when it was released since my faith continued to be challenged. A few years later I finally went inactive and learned that God still answered prayers.

1992 – I Will Always Love You – Whitney Houston

One of the most amazing voices – so sad she had so many problems.

1993 – In These Arms – Bon Jovi

This is not Bon Jovi’s biggest selling song of his first two decades, but it is my favorite.

The next two songs were from 1994. I was not aware of them until two years later when my son introduced me to Live, his favorite band at the time. My son and I have owned four CDs of “Throwing Copper.” The CD is in my car’s player, putting it on the short list of my most favorite albums.

1996  San Fran1994 – Selling the Drama – Live

1994 – Pillar of Davidson – Live

My son and I attended a Live concert around 2002 at the House of Blues in Myrtle Beach. It was a small venue with a few tables at the sides and back. We stood at the ropes in front of the stage. It was a memorable experience.

1995 – Everlong – Foo Fighters

My son introduced me to the Foo Fighters. He thought it was strange that I did not like Nirvana.

My list has two singles from Matchbox 20′s début album, “Yourself or Someone Like You.” I bought the CD around the beginning of the end of my marriage.

1996 – If You’re Gone – Matchbox 20

Intense emotion combined with a starkly dark video – one of the best music videos in my opinion – quite the combination when the end has begun but you don’t realize the relationship is almost over.

1996 – Back to Good – Matchbox 20

I did not relate to the story behind the song, but I related to the phrase, “Back 2 Good.”

The group changed to Matchbox Twenty when they released their next album in 2000.

0011998 – Iris – Goo Goo Dolls

This is another group and song my son introduced to me. Later he introduced me to his cat named Iris. She came to live with me when he moved across the country due to her age.

1999 – Breathe – Faith Hill

Beautiful song – the video is probably appreciated more by my straight and less by my gay friends :)

1999 – Smooth – Carlos Santana and Rob Thomas

“Yourself or Someone Like You” spawned enough hits to show that Rob Thomas was not a one hit wonder, but Smooth cemented him as a talented musician. Don’t be surprised to see him and Matchbox Twenty on a future list.

A Few More “Still Water” Thoughts + Sugar Cookies

(This is a continuation of this post about the Gay Mormon Stories interview with Bryan Hendrickson and Adam Allred.  It ties in with some other thoughts and experiences.)

Adam and Bryan talked about their first reactions to meeting gay people.  They said the people they met were not the evil, horrible people that they had heard about from church and society in general.  Rather, they met kind, intelligent, creative, artistic, sensitive, and talented people.

I had the same experience.  I was talking with a friend after I became involved with the chorus.  She wanted to know about the people who I had met.  I told her they included a banker, some people in education and education administration, small business owners, retail managers, a florist, a pharmacist, and someone in hospital administration.  She replied, “They sound like a good group of people.”  That is what I have found.

Gregory and I had a nice time meeting a few gay Mormons the other week.  Each of the people were kind and friendly. They had a variety of work and education experiences.    I thought they would be a good addition to any group, yet almost everyone had experienced some form of rejection.

Straight people do not need to be afraid of gay people.  We do not have an evil gay agenda nor do we want to destroy the world.  We want to be treated fairly.  We want to be treated kindly.  We want to be treated with respect.  We want to be your friends.  We want to be loved by our families.

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Changing subjects to a lighter mood, today is the one year birthday of my blog.  Thank you for stopping by to see what I have posted.  Let’s celebrate with sugar cookies :)

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